Shovel law ushers flurry of opinions

John Howell
Posted 2/10/15

There is yet more snow, and neither the city nor businesses and residents – who are being told they must shovel their sidewalks – know where to put it all.

It’s a dilemma that has raised …

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Shovel law ushers flurry of opinions

Posted

There is yet more snow, and neither the city nor businesses and residents – who are being told they must shovel their sidewalks – know where to put it all.

It’s a dilemma that has raised concerns over pedestrian and vehicular safety, led to questions over whether schools should open, and generated calls to officials and a Facebook storm.

The announcement Thursday that police would start enforcing the city ordinance on shoveling sidewalks also has Ward 5 Councilman Ed Ladouceur thinking there’s got to be a better way of ensuring pedestrian safety than threatening to fine people $100. Ladouceur is calling for a study of the ordinance.

And Ward 4 Councilman Joseph Solomon believes a moratorium on the law is in order until something is worked out or conditions improve.

“I don’t think people need the additional stress [of shoveling their sidewalks],” Solomon said Sunday. “It’s a bad time to put this pressure on people and it’s not practical.”

“Let’s face it, it’s heavy mounds of ice,” Solomon added, pointing out that shoveling is a risk to those who aren’t physically fit.

Police Major Raymond Gallucci said yesterday that between 7:24 a.m. Friday and 2:30 that afternoon, police made 92 calls relating to sidewalks in and around school zones. In that time period, eight violations were issued.

“We did the release as a safety alert,” he said. “Our goal is voluntary compliance.”

In an interview last week, Mayor Scott Avedisian said, “Going out to fine somebody is not a solution.” He favors asking people to shovel sidewalks, especially in areas where there is pedestrian traffic such as around schools and businesses and calling upon volunteers such as Serve Rhode Island to assist the elderly and handicapped who can’t shovel. He also said the city is faced with an issue of where to dispose of all the snow. Dumping it on playing fields, as has been suggested, would not be good because of road salt and sand that would kill the grass.

Further endangering not only pedestrians but also motorists trying to access major roads from side streets are mounds of snow that obstruct a clear view of the traffic.

Conditions promised to only worsen as snow continued piling up yesterday.

“We can’t even tell if it snows anymore,” DPW Director David Picozzi said Monday morning.

He said crews were plowing the main roads and private contractors would be called in once the snow slowed and the cleanup started. Sanitation and recycling crews did their routes, although there were fewer stops than usual as residents were also digging out.

Picozzi said the department’s $435,000 snow removal budget had been drained to $130,000 as of the most current storm. He expects by the next storm, now forecast for Thursday, it will be completely gone.

Then what?

“We’ll be plowing,” he said, “and worry about the budget later.”

What about revising the shoveling ordinance giving police greater discretion, or changing the law all together?

Chief of Police Col. Steven McCartney said he and Avedisian talked about the legislation in October 2012 and emailed members of the council inquiring whether they might want to revisit the law. They didn’t get a single response.

As police had waited well beyond the period residents and businesses are to clear sidewalks after a storm, McCartney said he is concerned about safety.

“We continue to march with the ordinance as it is today,” he said.

Given Friday’s performance – and in light of the fact that the 92 visits by police led to only eight citations – Avedisian said yesterday police are exercising discretion, and he doesn’t see the need for a moratorium or the revision of the law.

Ladouceur is troubled by the subjective nature of enforcing the law. He said there are state sidewalks, such as those on the Greenwood Bridge, that haven’t been shoveled, and city walks that haven’t been cleared. Then there is the issue of sections of sidewalks where the owner can’t be identified – vacant properties and foreclosed homes and businesses – that are not cleared, forcing people back into the street to get around them.

Options Ladouceur has identified include requiring the School Department to clear walks within a certain radius of schools; having schools pick up students that are within walking distances of schools; having city crews clear more sidewalks; and reducing speed limits.

“For me, the answer is not to ignore it. We need to do it more objectively and to get a better way to do it,” he said.

City Council President Donna Travis talked with Ladouceur and favors “revisiting” the current ordinance. But she’s concerned about acting too quickly and without adequate study.

McCartney said he would willingly participate in discussions about the legislation. He said the public reactions to the law “range from forbearance to zero tolerance.” Following notification that the ordinance would be enforced, he said, one resident provided police with a list of his neighbors who hadn’t shoveled.

“The ordinance doesn’t allow any discretion on this,” he pointed out.

The fact main roads were down to bare pavement last week, albeit narrower in many cases, had motorists driving at higher speeds than on snow-covered roads. It has all made for some frayed nerves and admonitions from some that people are going to get hurt, and worse yet, that someone will die. It also made for some unique scenes.

Picozzi said he was stopped at a light on Warwick Avenue when two joggers came out of Squantum Drive and continued running on Warwick Avenue.

“Maybe they ought to be issued tickets,” he said.

Ward 1 Councilman Steven Colantuono said after the shoveling notice he received several calls from residents near Wyman School that they had shoveled their walks, but walks at the school had not been cleared. Colantuono checked and found that the case.

“We make the rules as best we can…we do need to talk more about it,” he said.

“We haven’t been inundated by complaints,” Avedisian said yesterday. “I say we give a lot of discretion now, and that’s a pretty good way of resolving the issue.”

As for the suggestion that school buses pick up students who would otherwise be required to walk, Avedisian said schools have an operation at capacity policy in place and that 97 percent of students are either being bused or driven to school as it is.

The Facebook storm broke several days after the blizzard when former Republican mayoral candidate Stacia Petri Huyler posted pictures of properties where people hadn’t shoveled sidewalks. Avedisian took offense, noting there was no way of knowing whether those she targeted were incapable of shoveling or, perhaps, didn’t have sidewalks. GOP Chairman Michael Penta issued a release indicating that Huyler hadn’t shoveled the sidewalk in front of her house, calling her a “hypocrite.”

“I think Mayor Avedisian and the Warwick Beacon should spend more time bringing attention to all of the untreated roadways and sidewalks in Warwick before someone is seriously injured or killed,” she said in response last Wednesday.

As of yesterday, her Facebook page featured photographs of her and volunteers shoveling out homeowners as well as RIPTA bus stops that hadn’t been cleared. She questioned the state and the city’s diligence in clearing streets of snow.

Comments

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  • RoyDempsey

    Are you serious Mr. Penta. From what I saw, Ms. Huyler directed her comments to situations around our schools and major roadways, specifically those where there are sidewalks. FYI, there is no sidewalk in front of her house or for that matter in the front of most houses in Warwick.

    Tuesday, February 10, 2015 Report this

  • allent

    what do other cities do?

    Tuesday, February 10, 2015 Report this

  • RIposter

    They should enforce it for everyone. For example the library on Sandy Lane isn't plowed neither are many businesses. So if you want to write tickets make it fair...

    Tuesday, February 10, 2015 Report this

  • Scal1024

    What happened to pensions/health care? You bunch of whiny, small, complaining hacks. I don't know what's more pathetic? Your constant sucking up to Stacia ( a clearly unqualified, delusional, opportunist who has made a habit of blatantly lying to voters), or your continual shooting at dozens of targets, hoping one sticks.

    I don't feel the roads are in great shape, but I wouldn't expect them to be after over 2ft of snow in 2weeks time. Go to Boston, is Marty Walsh a bad mayor? They have a $9million snow budget. Is Boston heading toward collapse? They exhausted most of their budget. Or is it just because sometimes mother nature is unpredictable.

    I've said it before, I'll say it again...you guys are your own worst enemy. You can't help but make EVERYTHING political and that's very sad. This is the EXACT reason Stacia will never be mayor. Voters see right through her phony, perfect housewife gimmick. She is the same person who created a false username to create a perception of support she never had. Its funny to me Stacia always references voters "staying home", they stay home because of people and campaigns like you.

    Wednesday, February 11, 2015 Report this

  • Knowing54

    No one is sucking up to anyone Scall024! As citizens in this community we have to keep up to date with issues at hand. Snow removal or lack of is the important issue to clean up! Other communities have the same complaints as Warwick! Rhode Island did not learn a thing from the "78 blizzard. We will be getting back to the pension and healthcare soon enough! Maybe you should calm down wait 24 hours and read your posting again before you post it. That would be the mature and responsible thing to do.

    Wednesday, February 11, 2015 Report this

  • Scal1024

    OK so the same people who complain WEEKLY about high taxes and small businesses being squeezed, are the same ones hoping the city imposes fines on those same businesses? That's not completely backwards or anything.

    You said it yourself, other communities are having the same problems... There was just a significant blizzard followed up by smaller storms, that's going to create problems.

    The irony in all of this is I believe a better job could have been done, and the mayor worrying about "dead grass" is a joke. But to act like this is a pressing issue is laughable. I'm not sure what was irresponsible about my post other than it disagreeing with you? Anyways, i will try and stay on topic (in order to keep the conversation going) from here on out.

    Wednesday, February 11, 2015 Report this

  • Norm88

    Knowing54 just so you know Scall024 is 100% correct, in politics, perception is reality and the truth is negotiable.

    The fact is this you expect the people of the city to take budget and finical advice pertaining to the city from a person who did not have the whereabouts to buy their home at the correct time. See she could not judge the market and only got involved in politics because she is upside down on her home.

    Stacia for sure is not the answer she has 0 public policy experience and only points out issues that anyone that pays attention knows are nothing new. If she wants more than 33% of a primary vote gives solution’s to the issues or maybe she can’t….

    Wednesday, February 11, 2015 Report this

  • Notbornyesterday

    Here's a start Stacia/Sabrina maybe not delete everybody that has a different view than yours. The second you ask her a "tough" question she deletes everything. Her true colors have and always will be apparent.

    Wednesday, February 11, 2015 Report this

  • Scal1024

    Today Stacia asked people to post photos of children and the elderly struggling to walk in the streets to Facebook. What is the point of this exercise? Do people not know there is snow on the ground? This is so blatantly political, and honestly psychotic.

    A woman questioned whether it was legal to post photos of children under 13 because her lawyer informed her it was not. Stacia replied get a new lawyer and then deleted both comments. Deleting any opposing view? Let me ask Mr. Cote, Mr. Mahoney, Mr. Cushman, Mr. Dempsey...is that free speech? Is that how we solve problems in this city? I will give all of you gentlemen some advice: its time to speak out against this lunacy. Whether you believe it or not, every one of you allows this nonsense to be spewed everyday without saying a word. Enough is enough. Let's get some adults in the room because this woman is pathetic.

    Wednesday, February 11, 2015 Report this

  • Waprovencal

    Here's to keeping it real Scall!!! A standing ovation for Scall. I have already put my two cents in on Rhodybeat and in the Beacon regarding Stacia blocking opposing views. She did not want a link to this posted to her Stacia for a better...(etc) and now I see why. It tells a COMPLETE STORY and GIVES BOTH SIDES to the story, not just what Ms. Petri/Huyler/ Sabrina wants to lead the sheep to believe.

    Wednesday, February 11, 2015 Report this

  • stinkeone

    just want you to tell me how they could hand out tickets to people for not removing snow from sidewalks and feel it was the right thing to do i can't fathom how one could justify doing so go about the city and see how there is snow piled up all over the sidewalks not just private property and businesses it's on city properties also not all these properties are owned by handicap or elderly and they have not been cited for lack of refusal it just not a fair deal to those who were served citation why weren't corners cleaned where the snow is so high you have to get the nose of your car into the traffic in order to see if it is okay to pull out i mean it's dangerous and someone should remind these businesses it's a bad practice to do this

    Thursday, February 12, 2015 Report this

  • Knowing54

    Please, re-read my statement. Most comments after mine is the normal dribble! I do not understand why one has to personally attack a concerned citizen! If you do not like someone...that is fine...I would suggest you stop following them and the sites! We need information about what is going on in City Hall...not all of us have the time! I am thankful that we have someone willing to fill this UNPAID POSITION!! I NEED to have this information! Snow removal/plowing was not well done. Mostly, corners, one can not see around the pile for on coming traffic. This STATE has not been able to recover well from ANY snow storm! The blizzard of '78 taught RI government NOTHING! I have listened to comments from commuters traveling from other States. We are a DISGRACE!

    Thursday, February 12, 2015 Report this

  • wwkvoter

    I read every comment, and the article. Interesting issues here. Both the snow removal, and "stacia the censorship lady". The Mayor is correct, snow dumped onto grass will kill the grass. Hopefully our Council will look at other communities and figure this out, you cannot enforce for property owners what the city and state cant even comply with. And the sidewalks are so buried under PACKED, DEEP snow, it is not reasonable to even demand that healthy people try to shovel it over and over every time the plows come by. Some of it cannot be shoveled at all. Now, where is Sabrina on the issue?

    Thursday, February 12, 2015 Report this

  • Knowing54

    Isn't it slightly more important to clear the piles of snow for SAFETY reasons than to worry about how it will harm the grass?!?! My grass is damaged after winter...guess what watering and the rain take care of the issue! It will grow again! Just more excuses from the Mayor!

    Thursday, February 12, 2015 Report this

  • Notbornyesterday

    Stacia/Sabrina is now posting under Knowing54. Same exact language as all other screens names. Go figure.

    Thursday, February 12, 2015 Report this

  • Waprovencal

    Knowing54- I have no problem with someone that wants to inform the public about what is going on in the city. If you want to do this then show all sides of the story. I am glad I read the article because I was able to read the FULL QUOTES of those interviewed. There is no "attack" on any one individual. We are merely stating FACT that Ms Huyler has banned people from her pages for disagreeing with her or pointing out misleading statements. When she bans people and removes their comments she states they were being derogatory or misleading. It seems no matter what our Mayor does she will criticize it. She at first backed him on people being fined and then puts on her page that people should have been given a heads up they were going to be ticked and that it is now unfair. When he states the officers are using discretion she states "just more excuses from the Mayor." Can someone help me understand what she wants.

    Thursday, February 12, 2015 Report this

  • Knowing54

    Notbornyesterday...LOL! My name is Pam. I have lived in Warwick close to 40 years. I wish I still had Stacia's thirst for knowledge! I take your negative statement as a compliment.

    Thursday, February 12, 2015 Report this

  • Knowing54

    Waprovencal and other posters...Maybe you should remove yourself from her FB site if what she states, removes or dislikes bothers you. It is her FB! I am on other pages where people/statements are removed at the discretion of the manager. I have not had any concerns/issues with the way she projects herself. You may because you do not want to see her point of view. Which is fine...then you are on her FB not to learn or become aware of issues with Warwick or RI. You are there to cause problems. Just my observation...

    Thursday, February 12, 2015 Report this

  • HerbTokerman

    People should just refuse to pay the fines and argue in the courts that you can't be forced to maintain property you do not own.

    People pay enough in taxes where the city should invest in the necessary equipment and manpower to make the city safe to walk in during the winter.

    Heck get free labor from the ACI if you have to...

    Thursday, February 12, 2015 Report this

  • HerbTokerman

    As for what to do with all the snow, rhode island and the other southern new england states should invest in snow melting equipment like they use in canada.

    look at this, roads and sidewalks completely cleared of snow and the snow hauled away to be melted.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pE6N7CDV-9s

    Thursday, February 12, 2015 Report this

  • Pmaloneyjr

    Hi Scal1024, I'm not on the Beacon site as often lately. I did want to reply as you called me out. In my opinion, if a person wants to have a frank discussion of the facts, I have not issue with replying to questions and love to have a discussion when I have an opposing point of view as someone else. It gives me the chance to see things from a different perspective and I usually learn something. I hope that the person who disagrees with me also learns something. Often times, I find we have a lot in common and probably only disagree in a few areas. The only time I have ever deleted a comment on my page is if someone swore or said something extremely offensive. I can only think of a couple times it has happened but it wasn't even in a conversation. I have many friends and a pretty good sense of humor and sometimes things get posted that are not appropriate for the general audience.

    There are actually many things that I disagree with but have no problem interacting with the person. I disagree on several things Mayor Avedisian has done or said over the years, but would not have an issue working with him if he asked for my opinion or help with an issue if it was going to benefit Warwick. I am critical but always try to give people the benefit of the doubt. I doubt he would ask for help.

    I am not specifically aware of Stacia's FB page but I know she has been accused of deleting things. I believe she has mentioned to me the she deleted a comment at one time or another. I believe she said the person seemed to be harassing her or verbally assaulting her and she wanted it to stop. I don't know who made the initial posts or how the conversation escalated. I wouldn't have an issue with a person deleting comments or blocking someone if the comments were actual harassment and/or verbally abusive. She asks a lot of turbulent questions and gets a lot of turbulent answers. It is her decision. I'm not in the same situation so I can't say if I would do the same. I would probably ignore the person and let it slide.

    I hope this answers your question. I was kind of surprised you called me out on this topic. I was satisfied with the snow removal for Warwick. I think they plow drivers did a pretty good job. Could it have been better? I am sure even they think they could do better if given the time or money to do it. It all comes down to planning and it is getting tough to plan with running out of places to put snow.

    Someone commented to Stacia that all she does is complain. I suggested that rather than complain about how bad the sidewalks are or bus stops are, that she get out there and work to make it better. She went right out and got a Snow blower and Car Carrier and actually started clearing the snow. I give her credit for that, it must have been difficult.

    No one is perfect. I am far from it and trying to get better all the time. Take care Scal1024, Patrick

    Thursday, February 12, 2015 Report this

  • Waprovencal

    Knowing54, as I had said before, in my above comment, I do not have a problem with Stacia having her page I just wish she would tell the whole story and not just give bits and pieces. Evidently you did not read my comment very well. I thought Stacia had a bit more credibility, but evidently I was mistaken. One of her posts referenced the US average price per gallon of diesel. I can only assume she was trying to tie it into the city budget for fuel and the city should be paying less. Off the same website, there was also the New England average ($ .20 higher). I asked why she didn't post the NE prices and asked if she felt her statement was a bit misleading she replied: Warwick WATCH no Bill Provencal-- YOUR comments are misleading. If NE diesel prices are higher than national average how could the city pay less?? My question got me blocked and removed. There are many other people I know that were also banned for asking questions of her plans, disagreeing with her or citing her misleading statements. She then, on her page, states that w were derogatory, If she is going to have the page she should be prepared for critics and people to disagree- makes for healthy debate. I looked on her page for information of what her "better direction" is and there is nothing there but the same rhetoric she espoused during her campaign, There is no comprehensive plan or ideas that would take Warwick in a "better direction".

    Mr Maloney, you are not specifically aware of Stacia's pages. Your multiple comments on both her pages is contradictory. If I had a page that brought up issues that people did not agree with I would accept their comments and criticism. I am sure you and I could have some great debates and discussions.

    Mr. Tokerman, (great name), ACI labor is not free. Anyone who wants to use inmate labor has to pay administrative fees and also pay that inmate labor. You can thank the ACLU for having to pay the inmates. Buying melter, more trucks to haul snow and front end loaders, fuel, wouldn't that cost more tax dollars?

    Thursday, February 12, 2015 Report this

  • Knowing54

    Waprovencal, I read your comments. You do NOT need to be on HER page if you do not like the way she applies information. I do not need an in depth article or commentary of information to understand what is being projected for our benefit. Some people do...Again, maybe this just isn't the page for you.

    Friday, February 13, 2015 Report this

  • stinkeone

    i'm seeing a trend here and don't like it is this a forum for all you to air out your personal problems or to bring attention to problems people have with particular articles that have been printed i posted the other day and i came back today and it's all hate crap not a thing is being said about the people who received tickets for not shoveling no one seems to care all they care about is stacia and deletions and bullcrap no one wants to read that crap or her trivial crap about the city and how they performed city did fine as always it's just the sidewalk issue that is of concern and what will become of it do we continue to make people responsible or should we have the city clear them myself i think the city should be responsible we pay enough taxes where this service should be covered that's just my opinion and for those people given tickets the city and police department should be ashamed as i said ride about the city and ask your self how fair was that when you see so many sidewalks not shoveled

    Friday, February 13, 2015 Report this

  • davebarry109

    This is a simple issue. Either the sidewalks are private property and the home owner cannot be made to work on his/her own property, or the sidewalks are city property and the city is responsible for clearing them. They can't be both.

    The ordinance is unconstitutional and no one should pay the ticket. If you get a ticket, plead not guilty. I think the appeal is to the superior court and not RITT tribunal. The courts will not want to hear these cases. You win.

    Friday, February 13, 2015 Report this

  • Scal1024

    Pat, thank you for answering candidly and honestly. It wasn't intended to "call you out", just get your opinion on what's been happening. The reason I used your name was because Stacia told you not to link a Beacon article to her page. Why would she say that? To restrict opposing views and prevent the facts from being read.

    I know you are in a tough position because you are a practical person, who is interested in getting things done, and that conflicts with what Stacia is trying to do (launch her career). I would love to engage in a debate with her on FB, but she restricts speech and opposing views, and I WILL NOT allow my words to be twisted. She has no interest in a fair debate and that's sad Pat.

    Again, I thank you for your response, hopefully you understand where it was coming from a little more now.

    Friday, February 13, 2015 Report this

  • Waprovencal

    Scall, I was invited to meet with Stacia in person to hear where she is coming from. I fully understand where she is coming from and so will decline meeting her in face to face. My biggest reason is what you have stated, my fear of having my words twisted and then most likely put on social media in her own interpretation. I agree with you it is sad that she will not have a fair debate on FB. I have tried only to be blocked on both pages, called a liar, and be told my statements were derogatory. If she can not handle people trying to debate her on social media how does she expect people to listen what she has to say in public. If someone opposes her in the public forum is she going to have them removed, or will she just leave? She will block people with insulting statements yet she, in what she thought was a clever way, insults you on her page. If she does not block people and their comment, how will she get the mindless sheep to follow. Had she not taken this course of action after her loss in the primary, she may have had a shot at some type of political career.

    Friday, February 13, 2015 Report this

  • perky4175

    its city property it should there responsability they have no problem pushing snow in you drive way

    Friday, February 13, 2015 Report this

  • Scal1024

    I had to laugh when I was referenced in Stacia's FB post..."look ma I made it". Clearly she reads her Beacon comments page, even though she hides behind FB. Hey Stacia, whatever happened to Sabrina V? She was a regular commentor on here, you and her had several conversations during the campaign back and forth. Ever since you and her had identical posts (and were called on it) neither of you have returned...odd. If you think that issue is gone, you are mistaken. You can hide from reality on FB but in the real world, where the adults live, things don't just go away because you block them.

    What is the purpose of taking pictures of people walking? Pure political nonsense. There's snow in the forecast this weekend, so we'll have another week of dumpster fire posts. I can take the heat Stacia, but by your posts...its quite clear you can't.

    Friday, February 13, 2015 Report this

  • Pmaloneyjr

    HI Waprovencal and Scal1024,

    Feel free to message me anytime if there is an issue or something in your neighborhood that requires attention. While I wasn't elected in 2014, I still plan to be active and also plan to run again in 2016. My email is Patrick@Maloney4Schools.com. I am also available via FB. If you have an issue, please FB message me as I will see it. If you post on my page I may miss it.

    Scal1024, sorry I typed "called out:. I wasn't offended at all for being mentioned. Thanks for your message back. Stacia asked me not to post a link or ask for a link because she has an issue with John Howell. I have also had issues and am not a big fan of the Beacon, they tend to be, in my opinion, leaning slightly (largely) towards certain candidates and I don't approve. I would rather have both sides of a story and let the public decide when presented all the facts, unfortunately, newspaper companies need to sell newspapers and are not necessarily in the business of providing unbiased information. I intentionally did NOT put an advertisement in the Beacon because I didn't want to give money to John Howell and seeing as I lost the election by approximately 200 votes, maybe I made the wrong decision, life moves on.

    Waprovencal, I do post periodically on Stacia's page but don't watch what happens on the page, so I am not specifically tuned in to who is posting or who may have been blocked. If I see an article and I want to comment, I comment. One reason I don't see everything is because 99% of the time I am accessing it from my phone and not a computer. I know one person who was blocked because I am friends with them and they told me. I am currently running 2 businesses and have a family so as much as I love FB and commenting here on the Beacon page, I don't always have the time. I put several things on hold while I was running and am still trying to catch up. :)

    Enjoy the snow and sty safe. Patrick

    Sunday, February 15, 2015 Report this

  • Pmaloneyjr

    oops, Enjoy the snow and stay safe. Patrick

    Sunday, February 15, 2015 Report this